Book 4: The Message

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by btlizard » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:44 am

Menno wrote:
btlizard wrote:(I'll comment later about how the most infuriating thing with her is how things shouldn't work out but somehow do, thus "proving her right".)
That actually happens for all the Animorphs. As early as book #1
I’m not just talking about KAA’s consistent use of deux ex machina. There is obviously some suspension of disbelief required when reading this series. I’m talking about things that not only shouldn’t have worked out but should actually have been condemned by the others. In Book #2, everyone was upset that Rachel morphed into an elephant in front of the guy (even though her life may have been in danger). In Book #3, Rachel’s and Tobias’ actions are criticized. In Book #5, Marco is criticized for what he did (even though they all “understood”). Cassie doesn’t just do stuff like this that would expose them; she makes single actions that should get them all caught and killed/infested in one fell swoop. This would be fine, except she is rarely (if ever) criticized for her actions. It’s as if everyone has decided she has better judgment than all of them. And THAT wouldn’t be so bad, except that everything works itself out so that none of her actions ever stand condemned in time as something that shouldn’t have been done. If this same sort of thing were applied to the others, the bird Rachel and Tobias freed should have really been an Andalite in morph or something that could have helped them defeat the Yeerks. Or, one of the guys that Marco beats up (and maybe ends of killing) would turn out to be Visser Three. Just silly stuff like that. I can accept many fictional aspects, obviously. It just shouldn’t be totally unrealistic that one person’s (foolish) actions never have (negative) consequences.
BabelFish42 wrote:
btlizard wrote:Also, on p.96, Cassie talks about how she is nervous when people look to her to tell them what to do, etc. What is so ironic about this is that in later books, Cassie seems to have no problem throwing her (illogical) opinions around in other people's faces. For example, later when they "all" decide that they shouldn't morph sentient creatures, that is all Cassie's influence.
So, funny thing, I was just skimming through (that's the closest I ever come to rereading) the book where they have that conversation. And that's not what happens. They all have some qualms about it, except for Rachel and Ax. Jake, the narrator, feels like there's something "really not right" about morphing other humans before Cassie ever says a word. And Marco's the one who asks, if we do this, how are we different from the Yeerks? So it really wasn't all Cassie.
I’m not sure what book you’re referring to that says that. I skimmed back through quickly, and in #13, it is Cassie who says that they “have to ask his permission”. She even initially sounds like they shouldn’t morph it at all, based on her response: “Jara Hamee isn't just any animal,> Cassie objected. <He's sentient. He's self-aware.” (Jake has to remind Cassie that they—particularly under Cassie’s direction—have already violated that idea twice when Ax morphed Jake and when Cassie morphed Rachel.) In #18, the Leerans’ TELL the Animorphs to morph them, and it is Cassie who says “we don’t like to morph sentient creatures.” (Actually, the Leeran interrupts her and reads her thoughts instead.) Also, earlier in #18, Cassie is arguing WITH EVERYONE ELSE that they shouldn’t morph a human. Then, by #23, Tobias says that the Animorphs “have a rule about morphing humans or other free, sentient species. We're not the Yeerks, after all.” It is consistently Cassie (in these books as well as others) who questions morphing humans or other sentient creatures or creatures who could possibly be sentient. So, all I’m saying is that it is Cassie who is instrumental in making this a rule. I’m not even saying it’s a bad rule, necessarily. I’m just saying that she SAYS she doesn’t like to push her opinion, but then, she actually acts contrary to that. And I just listed this particular example because it was one I remembered off-hand. There are other times Cassie forcibly gives her opinion as well. (Since I just read #6, another example of this hypocracy is when she gets on Jake's case for trying out a new morph without anyone else, but this is EXACTLY what Casse did in #4 when she morphed the squirrel at night. Sure, Tobias came later, but she didn't know that he would. And, she was in just no less "danger" than Jake was.)

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by BabelFish42 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:28 pm

I was thinking of #16. It's a conversation they have in the headquarters of Web Access America, and it sounded like the first time they'd discussed it. I guess that was the first time they talked about morphing other humans specifically, but, as you pointed out, it wasn't the first conversation they'd had about morphing sentient creatures. My bad.

Anywho, sure, Cassie's instrumental in making this a rule, I'll give you that. I'm just saying she wasn't the only one with qualms about it, at least initially.
btlizard wrote:another example of this hypocracy is when she gets on Jake's case for trying out a new morph without anyone else, but this is EXACTLY what Casse did in #4 when she morphed the squirrel at night.
Yeah, but all the Animorphs do that - get mad at each other for doing something they did themselves.
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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by btlizard » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:19 pm

BabelFish42 wrote:I was thinking of #16. It's a conversation they have in the headquarters of Web Access America, and it sounded like the first time they'd discussed it. I guess that was the first time they talked about morphing other humans specifically, but, as you pointed out, it wasn't the first conversation they'd had about morphing sentient creatures. My bad.
Gotcha. I forgot about this conversation.
BabelFish42 wrote:
btlizard wrote:another example of this hypocracy is when she gets on Jake's case for trying out a new morph without anyone else, but this is EXACTLY what Casse did in #4 when she morphed the squirrel at night.
Yeah, but all the Animorphs do that - get mad at each other for doing something they did themselves.
Very true.

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by Menno » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:17 pm

btlizard wrote:I’m talking about things that not only shouldn’t have worked out but should actually have been condemned by the others.
When she gave the Escafil device to the Yeerks, Jake gave her the cold shoulder until two books later, and all the others were pretty mad at her, to varying degrees, when they found out.

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by Diana moon goddess » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:43 am

Menno wrote: Random Trivia:
  • On p119, Ax says there are only three races in the galaxy that still fight the Yeerks. It'd be cool if at some point in the series we got to read about the other two.
hmm humans, andalite, hork-bajir/arn, whatever race the elimist is, and apparently hawks and whales too. there you have 6.

I think i've generally liked better the parts in other books describing tobias better than the books narrated by tobias himself. he seems a lot less derpy. this book is one of the few random animorphs books that I have. i pick them up at random places, when people are giving them away, or throwing them away, or once when they are selling them for a few pennies. consequently i have no choice as to which ones i get, which means my selection is very random. i have 2 cassie books, one disturbing tobias book, and one Ax book.
(Tobias's books tend to be very heavy stuff, ax's serious, or comically serious, or sometimes seriously comic, and Jake's books somehow philosophical, like i want to engage in some deep socratic debate stuff)

hey i thought the whale sending messages to cassie was out there. as was the assumption that dolphins are always happy.
but you know whales attacking foreign objects or beings in the water, even threatening things are not uncommon. take the real life example of Mocha d**k and the Essex, which were two real life inspirations for the book Moby d**k. the whaling ship Essex was sunk by a sperm whale purposefully ramming it(it wasn't just some panicking, hunted, whale thrashing around) mocha d**k "was sometimes quite docile, sometimes swimming alongside the ship, but once attacked he retaliated with ferocity and cunning, and was widely feared by harpooners. When agitated he would sound and then breach so aggressively his entire body would sometimes come completely out of the water.
In Reynolds' account, Mocha d**k was killed in 1838, after he appeared to come to the aid of a distraught cow whose calf had just been slain by the whalers."
not to mention many anecdotes of dolphins keeping sharks away from human swimmers.
working together to hunt, even across species is not uncommon http://news.discovery.com/animals/helpf ... 20502.html
there is a heartwarming tale from radiolab about a whale who is saved from drowning by humans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU3ONHtIkYM you decide whether it actually felt gratitude or not.

but hey, if whales communicating across species is weird, i'm sure cassie and Tobia's strange dreams about the sea and their simultaneous fainting is weird too. the "chosen ones" lols.

but oh boy, tobias nearly eating cassie, i know it doesn't sound very appealing when i describe it, but in the book was so funny. "and just WHY are you a squirrel in the middle of the night?"

[edit] no way, you guys found out a way to automatically censor Moby d**k? d**k is a hamburger joint over here.

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by BabelFish42 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:13 pm

Diana moon goddess wrote:[edit] no way, you guys found out a way to automatically censor Moby d**k? d**k is a hamburger joint over here.
Lol I know... I found out when I tried to type Charles d**k ens and it came out censored :P (If you try to type his entire last name as one word, it automatically shortens it to d**k for some reason. Won't let you capitalize it either.)
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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by Menno » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:39 pm

Diana moon goddess wrote:
Menno wrote: Random Trivia:
  • On p119, Ax says there are only three races in the galaxy that still fight the Yeerks. It'd be cool if at some point in the series we got to read about the other two.
hmm humans, andalite, hork-bajir/arn, whatever race the elimist is, and apparently hawks and whales too. there you have 6.
I'm pretty sure Hork-Bajir don't count because they're all enslaved. They can't fight because they have lost. The Arn never really fought the Yeerks at all, unless you count that one time when they lent Andrea and Dak their monsters, and that was decades ago. Ax's only knowledge of Ellimists come from Andalite fairy tales, and besides the Ellimist doesn't "fight" the Yeerks even though he seems to mostly be opposed to them. I doubt that Ax was including humans, since only 5 out of the billions of humans on Earth fight the Yeerks. Hawks obviously don't count. And whales don't seem to even know what a Yeerk is. Plus Ax had no knowledge of hawks nor whales at the time he said that.

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by Diana moon goddess » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:53 pm

Menno wrote:
Diana moon goddess wrote:
Menno wrote: Random Trivia:
  • On p119, Ax says there are only three races in the galaxy that still fight the Yeerks. It'd be cool if at some point in the series we got to read about the other two.
hmm humans, andalite, hork-bajir/arn, whatever race the elimist is, and apparently hawks and whales too. there you have 6.
I'm pretty sure Hork-Bajir don't count because they're all enslaved. They can't fight because they have lost. The Arn never really fought the Yeerks at all, unless you count that one time when they lent Andrea and Dak their monsters, and that was decades ago. Ax's only knowledge of Ellimists come from Andalite fairy tales, and besides the Ellimist doesn't "fight" the Yeerks even though he seems to mostly be opposed to them. I doubt that Ax was including humans, since only 5 out of the billions of humans on Earth fight the Yeerks. Hawks obviously don't count. And whales don't seem to even know what a Yeerk is. Plus Ax had no knowledge of hawks nor whales at the time he said that.

it should be obvious by the end of the sentence that I was *not* being serious. but thank you for clarifying.

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by Menno » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:39 pm

I didn't notice, because I typically only recognize facetiousness when there is some kind of humor or irony involved.

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Re: Book 4: The Message

Post by lady_summoner » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:32 am

Yay! Time to add Ax to the Animorphs! I've always liked this book. Adding Ax is a great boost to the Animorphs team and to the series. I also loved the sweet moments between Jake and Cassie. Plus Jake having a picture of Cassie while she’s medicating a badger is super cute.

I don’t think Cassie spent that much time moralizing morphing dolphins. She brought it up when she was alone with Jake and she hesitated right before they acquired the DNA. Then again at the very last chapter, but that was really it. To me this is a reasonable amount of thinking for something she considered questionable.

I agree with Btlizard a bit that Cassie always seems to get what she wants. I don't think it's necessarily for her own selfish reasons though. I feel that when she is being manipulative, it is because she is the one that knows that the war will end someday and they will all have to live with their actions.

I do have a couple of questions about this book though. Why did they have an extra pair of clothes with them when they got back with Ax?

Why was Ax the only Andalite in the dome ship? I get that he was too young to fight, but why was he the only young Andalite there? Did he get special privileges by being Elfangor’s brother? ETA: Ok, I just finished book 8 and apparently it is because he is Elfangor's brother.