The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

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Should everyone be entitled to marriage?

Yes
93
88%
No
13
12%
 
Total votes: 106

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BabelFish42
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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by BabelFish42 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:08 pm

Venus wrote:Of course, then we'd also have to make sure rapists married their victims.
Um... okay, I can tell you're being sarcastic here and you don't really support this at all. But in the future, you might want to use sarcasm colors (make your text colored), of just write "(sarcasm)" at the end, so other people don't misunderstand you on stuff like that. Just some friendly advice, so you don't get a bunch of pissed off people yelling at you.
Venus wrote:Ok, actually, there's no such thing as traditional Biblical marriage. It was different all through that very diverse book.
That is a great point that a whole lot of really vocal anti-gay-marriage people completely overlook. They love to point to the Bible and say "marriage is between a man and a woman." But it's like, um, no, not really. Many biblical marriages were between a man and multiple women. So if they are willing to follow their own logic, they should be trying to legalize polygamy. (Now personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'm willing to bet most members of the religious right would.) And like you pointed out, concubines were also a normal thing for powerful rulers in biblical times.
Venus wrote:And laws and legal definitions shouldn't really be based upon one particular religion, whether Jewish or Christian or any of the zillion others.
Exactly. I'm a Christian, but I don't want Christian rules to apply to everybody in society any more than I want society to pass laws that require me to fast during Ramadan. Laws should be about preventing people from infringing on other people's rights (ie, don't steal) and promoting the general good of society (ie, make everyone go to school and learn to read). Gay marriage does not infringe on anyone's rights and it does nothing to harm society as a whole. Therefore, it should be legal.
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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by BLuSKyE » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:41 pm

Ive always wondered if turning it around and not recognizing ANY marriage would make people stop and think of how ridiculous the whole argument is. Saying marriage is not needed now, because procreation is unnecessary in this over populated world, therefore marriage is not needed. We have civil unions why have a piece of paper?
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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by Venus » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:48 pm

BabelFish42 wrote:
Um... okay, I can tell you're being sarcastic here and you don't really support this at all. But in the future, you might want to use sarcasm colors (make your text colored), of just write "(sarcasm)" at the end, so other people don't misunderstand you on stuff like that. Just some friendly advice, so you don't get a bunch of pissed off people yelling at you.
Is using color for sarcasm, like, a thing on these forums? I guess I just like to get all Jonathan Swift.

I often get into character like Colbert, who is one of my heroes. I study at the same place he did. If people can't fuel a brain cell and take one second to tell I'm being satirical, and they get mad at me, I really don't mind. That's a purpose and method of satire; you have to do it seriously to reel in the audience, give them a shocker, and maybe influence them as a result. If I make a few enemies on the way, so be it- it's impossible not to in my line of work.

By using such a horrible example so seriously, maybe I can make one person think twice.

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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by BabelFish42 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:59 am

Venus wrote:Is using color for sarcasm, like, a thing on these forums?

Yeah, apparently it is. I haven't been on enough other forums to know if it's just a thing here, or an internet forum thing in general. I always kinda assumed it was a fairly common thing. *does quick google search* Yeah, looks like other forums do that too.
Venus wrote:I guess I just like to get all Jonathan Swift.

I often get into character like Colbert, who is one of my heroes. I study at the same place he did. If people can't fuel a brain cell and take one second to tell I'm being satirical, and they get mad at me, I really don't mind. That's a purpose and method of satire; you have to do it seriously to reel in the audience, give them a shocker, and maybe influence them as a result. If I make a few enemies on the way, so be it- it's impossible not to in my line of work.

By using such a horrible example so seriously, maybe I can make one person think twice.
Well, in that case, more power to you. :) I love Stephen Colbert. In general, I have a ton of admiration for anyone who can use humor/sarcasm to make an intelligent point.

Random/funny side note about Jonathan Swift: When my 10th grade English teacher had our class read "A Modest Proposal," one other student and I were the ONLY ones in the whole room who laughed/snorted/smirked. We got the sarcasm. Everyone else was either completely thrown off by the old language, or else was like, wtf are we reading, is this guy insane?! (Just so happens the other kid who laughed was also an Animorphs fan - the only one I've ever met in real life - and also the guy I ended up dating 2 years later.)
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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by cahya01 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:34 pm

Snoopy wrote: Now, with all that said, I think that homosexual couples should be treated just like traditional couples. I think they should have all the same rights and privileges that traditional couples do. After all, they’re not hurting anyone; they’re just exercising their personal beliefs. The freedom to do that is one of the strongest pillars of the United States government.

Now, the flipside of that coin is that if parents want to spank their children, they should be allowed to do that. Just as homosexuals aren’t infringing on anyone else’s liberty by exercising their own beliefs, so other parents aren’t hurting anyone else by spanking their own children.

I think that all in all, we would be a whole lot better off today if the government didn’t keep trying to poke its nose into the home, where it has no business interfering.
Sry if above post already commented before but I'm new in this forum, haven't really read all post in this thread, but want throw some comment on this...
I'm a little concern about what Snoopy said about spanking children aren't hurt anyone... of course there is someone got hurt.... that's the child... if the case is is only mild or normal spanking with a right reason I think it's fine to disciplined their children but sometimes parents got carried away with their emotions or other problems in their life which they inflicted on their children when maybe the mistakes their children made is only minor or just triggering parent's emotions...
If that's the case, I think it's right for the government to get involved in this matter....
Sry if this post become a little out of topic...

And back to topic, about marriage, I think the one thing which make marriage sacred is love... so as long there is love my opinion is anyone should could be married.... and at this one I'm agree with Snoopy... no one hurt so the government should not get their nose on it.... the one thing the couple should consider is if they plan to have child (adopted or something) again in this case they should consider community opinion on the child's future....

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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by AniX » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:28 am

Here is my take on marriage:

On a personal level, having met and befriend so many wonderful people who also happen to be gay who have supported me in my endeavors and have aided me in finding my own happiness, I do not know how I could turn around and say "No. No happiness for you."

On a legal level, I think the issue is relatively well settled by precedent. The Supreme Court has already found that marriage is a "civil right" (through cases about mixed race marriages) that cannot be denied to people lightly. The 14th Amendment clearly states that " All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States". I think we can all agree that beyond whatever we might believe about homosexuals, American homosexuals are citizens of the United States. Which means no state may abridge their privileges and immunities. Particularly in light of the interpretation of the 14th amendment in gender cases, I don't see how one could see it as doing anything other than guarantee the right to same sex marriage (After all, anti-gay marriage laws are essentially saying "A man can marry a woman. A woman cannot." and so is rightly a gender discrimination issue as well.

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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by Kithkarnon » Sun May 26, 2013 12:50 pm

I think the simple answer to this argument is marriage at the core, legal-wise, is a legally binding contract. Religion aside, anyone should be able to get "married" by signing the correct paperwork. And ultimately that is item that matters when it comes to the rights of a married couple.

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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by aniwhovimorphian » Mon May 27, 2013 6:11 pm

*Appologies if I'm jumping nto something here. I haven't read the previous posts*


personaly, i don't care. They should be treated the same as anyone else. Although in a world with so much discrimination towards gays, you have to care.
If no one supported them, it would be illegal for any gay person to get married, no matter where they went to do it.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If for christians:
---------------------------------------
I haven't read the bible. so if I'm wrong, please no discrimination. I'm pretty sure half the people against gay marriage haven't read it either.
God says being gay is a sin because they can't reproduce. 'Wich is why we should protest it' You may think.
No. He also said premaritual sex is a sin. So, it seems he wants people to only have sex to reproduce. And most of the people protesting gays
have had sex with condoms or without being married at least once, if not well over that number.
Also, somewhere in the bible there is a line about helping the poor. So, do me a favour:
Go door to door and find out who's christian. If the person is, ask what they have contributed to the poor.

What I'm trying to say is that the number of christians that haven't read the bible, don't follow it's laws, and yet still protest gay marriage is rediculous.
Please, don't get me wrong. There is still a strong amount of bible obeying christians. (User Tobias_Marco is a good example)
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

For non-christians:
-----------------------------
Okay, not really much to write here, but If you say it's 'unatural' then good for you. You have the right to think that. Although:

A:there are over 480 species that contain homosexuality, homophobia is found in only one.
B:If you take your time to protest it? You aren't king of the world OR king of peoples indivisual choices. You can't just order someone to follow your beliefs and not their own. What if someone ordered you to have sex with a man? I doubt a homophobic would be happy about that. Oh, and it's nice to know you actually take time out of your day to protest what somebody thinks

I'm going to go on and submit this before I accedentally delete it..

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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by Tobias_Marco » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:17 pm

Someone asked about incestuous couples.
I want to make it very clear that I am opposed to that, just as I am opposed to gay marriage and anyone getting married to someone who isn't the same species as they are.
If a Jewish man wants to marry an Asian woman, then I am fine with that, if a human wants to marry a duck, then I have a problem.

Tobias_Marco's guidelines for who you should be allowed to marry or have children with:
01. You should only have sex with someone you are married to; never have sex with another man's wife or another woman's husband.
02. You should only be married to one person at a time.
03. Nobody else should be in the room with you when you are having sex except your spouse.
04. If you choose to record yourself having sex with your spouse, then only the two of you should ever watch the recording.
05. You should never marry anyone who is already married (kind of already covered this in #2.)
06. You should never marry anyone who is the descendent of any of your great-grand parents.
07. You should not marry or have sex with a step-sibling, you may not be related by blood, but I still say that it is wrong.
08. You should only marry someone the same species as you, yet not the same gender; one human male with one human female, not one human male with one sheep female, or two human males together.
09. They say that opposites attract, however you do need to have a firm foundation of common ground on which to build your relationship, as such I think that you should get to know a person before you even start dating them, make sure that you agree with them one the most important political and religious points. Each of you should have belonged to the same religion for at least 5 years. This will help make sure that you have the same foundation and that you get along more smoothly.
10. As a personal guideline I think that you should not start dating until you are at least 15 and not get married until you are at least 23, this is so that you will have enough experience to make good choices. However this is only my thoughts on the matter, and if you go by all of these save one, I hope you pick this one not to follow.
11. Anyone who is a sex offender should be put to death.

Some of you have said that it is God's place to judge and not ours. Others say that the government should not make laws that force people to follow one religion or another.
It is true that the above rules fit in with the rules that God gave the Israelis in Leviticus, as for forcing other people to follow rules that my religion put in place, well what can I really say to that? Every law has to come from somewhere, there are very good reasons for most of these rules, others have only somewhat good reasons. Perhaps you think that one or two of them are very poorly motivated, or have lousy reasons. I don't care. Nobody is going to read this and make law biased on what is said here, and even if they did, I am only putting forth my views, as I have the freedom to do, in the same way that you have the freedom to disagree with me.

To be clear, the Bible teaches us to hate the sin yet love the sinner, I am not trying to tell anyone that they shouldn't be allowed happiness. I am not going to hate someone for being gay, I hate that they are gay, that is completely different. Its like a mother loving her son, yet hating that he robbed a bank and is now going to jail.

As far as the people in the Bible having multiple wives and concubines, I have looked at these verses and I know that a lot of people, kings especially did this, however I don't see how it would be practical to do it today. I can't even afford my own wife, much less two or three more!

Why do I feel this way? For starters a person is too young to make a good decision before a given point in there life, you wouldn't ask a 4 year old to perform brain surgery, for that same reason I think that it is possible to be too young and too ignorant of the facts to make a commitment like that.
Yes a lot of people would say ewwww to some of these rules being broken, and there is some chance of genetic problems with the children of couples who break some of these guidelines. However there can also be relational problems, believe me I know. My parents got divorced, my brother is having problems in his marriage and I am having problems in mine, and all of this could have been avoided if we paid more attendance to these rules.

Yes people need to be open minded, and yes most of these ideas seem rather close-minded, however there have been studies to support following these rules leads to longer and healthier marriages, especial when it comes to the age difference and having the same belief systems (both political and religious).
Gay marriage does not infringe on anyone's rights and it does nothing to harm society as a whole. Therefore, it should be legal.
Are we really sure about that? Can you really say that it doesn't harm anyone?

When it comes to spanking, they did a study, the happiest and healthiest people are those that grew up with both love and strong boundaries. By spanking or otherwise punishing your children IN A REASONABLE WAY you are drawing the line and letting them know what they can and can't do. I once heard a story about a very free spirited couple that let their children do whatever they wanted. "We don't want to get in their way or hold them back man." I don't remember how the story ended, but I think the kid got hit by a car when he was playing in the street or something.

As for God saying that gay marriage or premarital sex was a sin because they couldn't reproduce, that isn't true. God never said why it was a sin, he just said "This is wrong, don't do it." God intended sex to be a blessing to both people involved, however he also knew that if we have sex with too many people this blessing could mutate into a curse. Take STDs (STIs) for example. If two people are born, one a human male and the other a human female, and both are STD free, then they get married to each other and only have sex with each other then they will not have and STDs.

Before I got married my wife had been with other men, A LOT of other men. Looking back I don't think I should have married someone with that much experience in this area. The reason for that is simple, she is always comparing me to these other guys. The average human penis is a given size, mine is normal, however some of these guys she was with were bigger than normal. There is also the question of circumcision or not, when my wife first saw my penis she was surprised because she had never before seen one that looked like that. My parents had made a choice different from the parents of most of the other men she had been with. Then there is skill level. If a man and a woman don't have sex at all until their wedding night then they are both on the same level and you don't have an 'expert' stuck with a 'beginner'. Another benefit of waiting is this, when you have sex with your spouse you don't need the static of remembering what things were like with that other person, or wishing that they would do that thing that your last partner did, or having you remembering that your first partner really liked it when you did this one trick. If the two of you figure all this out at the same time then you learn what feels good for each other. Sure you have a very small sample size to work with, but you are only trying to please one person, you aren't studying to be a prostitute.
Also, somewhere in the bible there is a line about helping the poor. So, do me a favor:
Go door to door and find out who's christian. If the person is, ask what they have contributed to the poor.

What I'm trying to say is that the number of christians that haven't read the bible, don't follow it's laws, and yet still protest gay marriage is rediculous.
Please, don't get me wrong. There is still a strong amount of bible obeying christians. (User Tobias_Marco is a good example)
First, thank you for the complement. Second, as a Christian I can tell you that all true Christians read their Bibles and follow the laws given in there. Anyone who doesn't isn't really a Christian.
Here is a story to illustrate me point; a woman goes into a bar after work and meets a nice guy, he tells her that he is a doctor. As it turns out she always wanted to date a doctor, and not just because her mother wanted her to. They start dating and they sleep together many times. Then one day she finds out the truth, he isn't really a doctor. In fact he works as a day laborer for minimum wage.
The guy in this story said he was a doctor, yet he wasn't.
Didn't him saying he is a doctor make him one?
NO! NO! NO! A trillion times NO!
In the same way you can't just say that you are a Christian, a Buddhist or a french poodle.
Each of these labels means something. If you want to be a doctor you meed to pass medical school, if you want to be a Christian or a Buddhist then you have to familiarize yourself with the beliefs of that group and follow them.
I once went to the house of a Wicca and listened to him talk about what he believed. I did my very best to show him respect. I didn't yell at him, call him an idiot or a moron. I didn't try to tell him how much better Christianity was. He saw that I am a smart young man and he told me that there was a place for me in his group if I was interested.
HELL NO!!!
I now have a better understanding of what it means to be a Wicca, however that DOES NOT mean that I am one. If I were to call myself a Wicca I would be lying. In order to become a Wicca I would first need to change how true I believed those things to be, and I would change my lifestyle accordingly.
In the same way I understand the ideas behind evolution. If you want I can explain evolution in great detail, and answer all kinds of questions about it. That still doesn't mean that I believe it is true.
Just like you could tell me all about Santa Claus and the North Pole, how he has 8 tiny reindeer, and even list off their names. You could tell me about the elves, and the work shop, yet you don't really believe that any of that is real.
The point is that if you don't read the Bible and familiarize yourself with what it says, than I say you aren't really a Christian. Any true Christian would want to improve their understanding of the word of God, and would read the Bible.
You can't just order someone to follow your beliefs and not their own.
This is very, very true, something that both sides need to understand. I am not trying to order anyone to only date a given way. I am just saying what I believe to be correct. If anyone asks me for dating advice, then this is what I will give them. However I know that they must make their own choices, I can't make your choices for you.
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: The Right to Marriage. [MATURE 18+ DISCUSSION]

Post by aniwhovimorphian » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:43 am

06. You should never marry anyone who is the descendent of any of your great-grand parents.
Being chritian, Shouldn't you believe we all decended from Adam and Eve?