Wicca

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Tobias_Marco
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Re: Wicca

Post by Tobias_Marco » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:21 pm

<I have, many times. I know a lot of other people who have as well.>
<However that idea leads to an interesting thought. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.>
<The idea behind witchcraft is that there are supernatural beings, maybe it is a god or goddess who helped make the universe, maybe it is your loved ones who have died before you, however there is someone who is listening. If you ask them in just the right way and if they want to help you then they will do things that you ask for.>
<Christianity says the same thing about prayer, there is a supernatural being, the creator of the universe, and if you ask him in just the right way and if he thinks that it is good for you, he will help you by giving you what you ask for.>
<Christianity DOES NOT say that witchcraft is garbage that doesn't work, actually it says that when Satin became a fallen angel he took others with him (some will say 1/3 of all angels that there were at that time fell), these fallen angels are now called demons. Christianity says that these demons are listening to Humans all the time and if anyone is trying to perform any kind of witchcraft they will try to make it work, however sometimes it does and sometimes it does not, because of God stopping it some times and other times God is asked to leave by the Humans and God seeing that they want nothing to do with him leaves, and thus allows the demons to do as they please.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Wicca

Post by Sam_Vimes » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:45 am

Well, the people who use witchcraft I know (none refer to it as Wicca) refer to a supernatural being, but say they "draw the power from nature". I some practioners do refer to Mother Goddess or whatever, but you can invoke the name of anything you like, there's not really a specific thing or person - as you say it can be anyone or anything you choose to invoke the name of, as long as it would work for you.

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Re: Wicca

Post by Tobias_Marco » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:59 pm

<See and as a man of science I have a problem with that.>
<Truth is truth is truth.>
<What if I wanted to call on the power of Walt Disney, or Superman, or Banana Pancakes?>
<The pure truth is that the universe exists, and it had to get its start somewhere. Maybe it was created in a big bang, or by one god, or one goddess, or 5 gods and 3 goddesses or whatever number of each you want to guess.>
<The fact of the matter is that my belief or unbelief will not actually change who or what created the universe.>
<As a Christian I believe that I can pray and 'call on the power' of the God King of the universe who created all things, and if I'm right than that is great, however if I'm wrong then I am ignorant of the truth.>
<Both Christians and scientists will agree that belief doesn't change truth. Something ether is or is not true. However with witchcraft people are told that whatever you want to believe is just fine, just do whatever works for you.>
<So if I want to call on Spider-Man or a slice of bread, than that's just find, however I have to ask just how much power does Spider-Man, Super man or a slice of bread have to hear me and do what I ask?>
<The answer is that bread can be shaped like an ear if you really want, yet it still will not be able to hear, Super man and Spider-Man are both fictional characters and have no power over the real world except the power to inspire us with their stories.>
<On the other hand there are many people who believe that some kind of god or goddess may exist, even if they don't know what form that god or goddess takes.>
<If the god of Christianity really exists than me calling on his power is like picking up my cell phone and calling your number, I can tell you anything I want and ask you to do anything I feel like asking you. However it is your choice to answer my questions and fulfill my requests as you see fit, even if that means not saying or doing anything at all.>
<My wife decided to go spend a little less than a year with her father. So far she has been gone for 4 months. She called me and asked for me to go down to see her for a week and I have decided to do so, as a result you will not be hearing from me between the 3rd and the 10th of Sept of this years.>
<HOWEVER what if I made another choice? I could have said 'no'. My wife called on me and asked me to come visit her, I could have said 'no' and told her that I was staying put and that if she really wanted to see me she would have to come back here.>
<You can bet that the money I spent on the ticket could have gone for other things.>
<With witchcraft I am told that I can ask my grandparents and great grandparents to do favors for me, and they just might do them for me because they are my family, or maybe if I do something for them. However who says that they even have the power to help me?>
<Sure my grandfather might really, really like me and want to help me out, but that doesn't mean that he can. Maybe he is in some kind of Heaven and can't hear me over the great music, or he is in Hell and is chained to a wall being tortured for his crimes in this life, and just one small piece of his punishment is getting to hear me asking for his help when he knows that there is nothing that he can do for help?>
<Or what if it is worse? Picture this, your great-grandmother always liked you best of all, and she told you that when she died she would watch over you and try to help you out from the other side. However now that she is dead she finds herself locked up in a cell in the afterlife being punished for her crimes here on Earth. Every time you ask for anything she can here you, what is more there are evil demons that can here you as well and they want to hurt you.>
<It is bad enough for your great-grandmother that she is going through Hell (literally) she doesn't want you to go through it as well, yet these demons will gladly do anything to give you what you ask for, so long as they can lead you into Hell as well.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Wicca

Post by Sam_Vimes » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:20 am

I see what you're saying, but as much as the truth is the truth, people do invoke different things when performing witchcraft, and it still seems to work (or what they were hoping for coincidentally happens shortly after, just to argue both sides). Maybe it could be that no matter what one thinks they're drawing their power from, it could be coming from one source? That way it works for both sides.

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Re: Wicca

Post by Tobias_Marco » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:54 pm

<I get what you are saying, someone out there may be listing and they see my prayers as no different from the spells cast by witches and anyone else calling out to a higher power for help and they grant these wishes on their own terms.>
<Like if I pray to my god to win the lottery, and someone else casts a spell for riches just before they buy their ticket, this being hears both yet decides to let someone else win instead.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Wicca

Post by gh astly » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:57 pm

Well, I'll reply to this as I reply to most questions of this nature.
I'm non-religious myself (something I've tried to keep away from this forum for a while since it's usually not relevant), so I really look at most religions in this way: if you aren't affecting anybody else in a negative way with your religion, fine. If you aren't causing harm to yourself as a part of your religion, fine. I don't know much at all about Wicca, but I'm pretty sure that hurting others or yourself is not a part of the belief system; ergo, I personally see no problem with it.
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Re: Wicca

Post by Tobias_Marco » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:52 pm

<The problem comes when two people with different belief systems get married.>
<What if we have children? What will we teach the children?>
"Oh I can't leave you alone with your (mother/father) because (he'll/she'll) teach you all those (Christian/Wicca) lies."
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Wicca

Post by gh astly » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:57 pm

I guess that's a problem that I probably won't have to deal with, so I never really thought about that. I guess the best thing to do is to instruct your children on both religions when they're old enough and make a decision for themselves.
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Re: Wicca

Post by maxiheed » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:32 pm

Would suggest that there are many times where the result is psychosomatic - Having said that, some element of the desire to inflict or enhance through Wicca practice seems to be powerful enough to challenge traditional explanations....

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Re: Wicca

Post by ZiraWoods » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:16 pm

Tobias_Marco wrote:There is a reason for that; Harry Potter is a Wicca, that is the belief system that the books are biased on.
As a Christian I believe that the devil is trying to trap us, and as anyone will tell you, a trap works best if you have bate, and that bate needs to be as tempting as possible. Part of that is making it look as un-dangerous as possible.
If the Devil's bait is to look as harmless as possible how do we differentiate from GOD's gifts and miracles? For his gifts are also harmless.
"How and what you see in the world is just a matter of perception," Zira remarked, "There are wonders and miracles standing right next to you if you're willing to believe."

"Allonsy"