Why did God Torture His Son?

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Hautt
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Hautt » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:52 pm

Tobias_Marco wrote:<I'm not going to pretend that I understand it perfectly.>
<God needed to produce a son to take the penalty for us because justice had to be done, and we couldn't take it, but he could.>
<If there was no justice then we would not understand how much these hurt God.>
<God needs us to understand that some things are wrong, and that doing bad things have consequences.>
<How could that son also be him? Well that is the trick that only God fully understands, but the short answer is that God has 3 parts to himself, and he told a woman that he was putting part of himself into her and using her DNA to build himself a human body.>
<Normally when a human becomes pregnant a new soul is created to fill that new body, but in this case God put part of himself into that body instead.>
<But wait! Jesus has a male body, that means that he had an X and a Y chromosome, Mary was a woman with 2 X chromosomes. So where did the extra Y chromosome come from?>
<Well God made one by rearranging matter to create one, or built it from newly formed atoms that he created out of whatever process he used when he created the universe.>
Well, sort of. The goal of the entire thing was reconciliation with believers.

As we know, the penalty of sin is death. That's easy enough to understand, having justice systems of our own. Thievery gets you this, murder that. Well, sin is those and more. It's basically high treason. Rebellion against the lawful, supreme authority.

SO. Here we are, screwing everything up for ourselves. Sin here, sin there, sin sin everywhere.

In the Old Testament, these were alleviated by sacrifices of sinless, untainted animals. An offering. A transmittal of sins to something else, which is very, very necessary,

This was a limited system however. People still needed righteousness to enter the Kingdom of God, and people were limited in the amount of righteousness they had.

God solves that with a master stroke. This is a 5-par hole-in-one. Aced. Like a BOSS.

Becoming human through Mary, God lives a righteous life. Totally without sin. "Here's how you should be walking. This is how I designed it. This way is best." This is like a maze designer becoming a mouse and leading an ordinary mouse straight to the cheese. Kind of like when Cassie and Rachel morphed to rat for a school project.

Anyway. One problem is that man is still in a state of sin. So he does a little transaction on the cross. He takes the sin of all believers on himself. This is like going around with a laundry basket and taking people's dirty clothes.

So, he 1. Removes unrighteousness (sin)
and then 2. Adds his own righteousness (perfect).

I can't for the life of me recall the name given to this process. You get the idea though. Check our guns at the door and give us a sticker to enter the club.

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Tobias_Marco
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:29 pm

<Could you mean "Forgiveness?" or perhaps "surrogate" is a better word?>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Hautt » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:36 pm

Impute is the word I was searching for. Imputation.

In Theology: to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.

I also find the use of the word in statistics helpful. In statistics, imputation is the process of replacing missing data with substituted values.

Anyway, why did God torture his Son? Because we deserve it, and Jesus was standing in for us at that moment.

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Tobias_Marco
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:03 pm

<By the way, I want to thank you for everything you've added to this topic, very well spoken.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Ardelin » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:05 am

I just. Trinity. This is an excellent moment to switch to the other view of it. One, in three. I think it's clearer to say, not his son. No separation. God so loved the world he came, himself, to Earth, and died an excruciating death, for us. Not some unlucky innocent. We fell, and sinned, so God himself died. For us. It's...

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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by dswrigley86 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:32 am

People of all religions can agree that there are going to be aspects of God that are incomprehensible to our finite minds. However, when discussing the role and necessity of Jesus of Nazareth, a couple guidelines are established in the Tanakh as well as the Gospels. One is that God cannot contradict Himself nor do anything which is against His own nature. In order for God to make sins simply vanish, He must no longer be just. Scripture establishes that this cannot be. Also, in Judeo-Christian beliefs, humans are naturally evil natured, a trait inherited from our flesh father Adam. So the question is posed, how does God justify sinners without contradicting his just nature? The answer is in Jesus of Nazareth. On the cross, He didn't simply bare the torture of man but also drank the full measure of the cup of His Father's wrath for all those who would come to believe in Him. This type of propitiation merited only by faith was established in the book of Genesis when it said that Abraham's faith was attributed to him as righteousness. This is where core Christian doctrine differs from virtually all other religions. In other religions, a man is made righteous based upon his actions. In Christianity, a man is made righteous by the merit of God instead of Himself. The amazing thing of it is, it doesn't stop there. When a man receives this substitutionary atonement, it will blossom like a lush tree. Justification leads to sanctification unlike other systems that teach that sanctification leads to justification.

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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Lucky Star » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:11 pm

I think it might just be a general thing for human sacrifice.
But then again it wasn't 'god' doing the torture. He was kinda being exicuted by people, and people tended to be pretty violent back in those days.

Not that I'm a christian or anything.
Just making an educated guess on the possible reason.

Also god might have been a sadist. I mean if you take other parts of the bible into consideration...

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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:18 pm

Lucky Star wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:11 pm
Also god might have been a sadist. I mean if you take other parts of the bible into consideration...
<An interesting thought given where the word "sadist" comes from. However I think the rest of your post was on the mark.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20