Why did God Torture His Son?

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Tobias_Marco
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Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:41 am

<I have a problem, I feel like I am going over the same points again and again.>
<It is hard enough to prove that God is real with out this.>
<It seems to me that every time I explain something to everyone's satisfaction all I need to do is wait a few months and people bring it up again.>
<Normally I wouldn't mind, but I am trying to save time for everyone.>
<From now on when I get a question more then once, I may just have to give that question it's own topic and lead you to that topic to read my earlier answer.>

hptwiani Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:26 pm
If God is so bad he wouldn't have sent his son to die for us.

Current Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:29 am
If God was so good, he would've solved the problem without killing his son.

hptwiani » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:17 pm
he came back though.

Current » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:59 am
And it was supposed to be a sacrifice, so it must've hurt. Could God have accomplished the same without torturing his son?

Tobias_Marco » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:24 am
<God did not torture his son.>
<God built the universe in such a way that every action would have an equal and opposite reaction. Part of that is that when someone does something wrong, they must be punished.>
<God also knew that the wrong that we have done was going to result in a punishment so great that it would destroy us, he did not want this, so he had to find a way to protect us.>
<The only way to do that would be to have someone else step into the way of the bullet, so to speak, someone who could take it and still come back from it, even if it did scare them for life.>
<Only Jesus could do that.>
<God did not say that Jesus needed to be tortured, just look in the Old Testament for how it says lambs should be sacrificed.>
<They killed those lambs in as humane a way as they knew how.>
<However it was human beings who chose to torture Jesus.>
<Satan was trying to mess up God's plan, not realizing that he was part of God's plan.>
<It would be like if I wanted to build something that would save the world from invading aliens, but I got you to build it for me.>
<But you used slave labor.>
<I didn't tell you to use slaves to build it, you chose to.>
<What matters is that the job got done.>
<Could God have done it differently?>
<Yes, but to do that God would have to become a Yeerk.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Arthur » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:36 pm

I still don't understand why G-d would produce a son, or how the son could be him, or any of that. Understanding what the son is is necessary for this discussion.
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:33 pm

<I'm not going to pretend that I understand it perfectly.>
<God needed to produce a son to take the penalty for us because justice had to be done, and we couldn't take it, but he could.>
<If there was no justice then we would not understand how much these hurt God.>
<God needs us to understand that some things are wrong, and that doing bad things have consequences.>
<How could that son also be him? Well that is the trick that only God fully understands, but the short answer is that God has 3 parts to himself, and he told a woman that he was putting part of himself into her and using her DNA to build himself a human body.>
<Normally when a human becomes pregnant a new soul is created to fill that new body, but in this case God put part of himself into that body instead.>
<But wait! Jesus has a male body, that means that he had an X and a Y chromosome, Mary was a woman with 2 X chromosomes. So where did the extra Y chromosome come from?>
<Well God made one by rearranging matter to create one, or built it from newly formed atoms that he created out of whatever process he used when he created the universe.>
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Menno » Sun May 27, 2012 9:55 am

But isn't that quite the opposite of justice, for Jesus to be punished while the sinners get saved?
And if God can rearrange matter to create an extra Y chromosome, why can't he rearrange matter to make it so that people's sins can't harm others in the first place? People would still have "free will", but their attempts to cause harm would always fail.

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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:55 pm

<The first part of that is a very good question that I try to answer all the time and don't seem to be able to answer to anyone's satisfaction.>
<Here is one way of looking at it, when I do something wrong I break God's laws, somehow, through a meathod I don't understand God was able to put all my bad choices onto Jesus Christ when he was on the Cross. Because Jesus had never sinned himself and was only borrowing my sin he was able to face judgment and burn up my sins in the lake of fire.>
<Now I have a choice, with all this sin removed I can chose one of two doors, one leads to Heaven, the other leads to Hell.>
<"There is no sex in Heaven, so I might as well go to Hell." is only one way that Satan gets people to fall away from God.>
<Why doesn't God just stop the bullets or the knife when someone tries to kill someone? Why doesn't an angel show up everytime someone tries to rape someone, sell illegal drugs or every time someone starts to click on a website that they know they really shouldn't be visiting?>
<I don't know. I really wish he would, however my best guess is that it comes down to parenting.>
<Lets say your mother was hovering over your shoulder ALL THE TIME!!! You just COULD NOT get away from her.>
<It would drive you nuts, and you would want to be as far away from her as possable.>
<God doesn't want that, he wants us to "draw near to him.">
<So maybe God sits back in his chair and says "I created this universe and set it spinning, not I'll just leave them alone and all the Humans will love me because I'm not hovering over them all the time." Yeah that will not work, I've seen enough movies about children who were raised without a father, who only sent them a check once a month if they were lucky to know that isn't good parnting.>
<The solution must be somewhere in the middle. God needs to be in our lives enough that we know he is there and loves us, yet not so much that we feel like he is hovering over us all the time.>
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by mostafahmed » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:58 am

I am muslim but I do know why. It is similar to every religion. Patience. Testing patience. Which proves that Jesus or Mohamed are worth their great job. It also shows that they are powerful sticking up to their god. And besides, in heaven u wont think of any bad stuff anyway. And hell is really hot yhat the fire is hot even if it is scientifically inaccurate. Religion is the opposite of Science.
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:26 am

<I don't see them as opposites, they are both quests for the truth.>
<I have a very mathematical and scientific mind and cane easly understand things governed by the laws of math and science, yet I often have difficulty understanding human emotions and behaviors, because they do not seem to follow any logical or scientific laws. In the same way there are other things that do not follow the laws of science without breaking them. Religion is one of them.>
<Think about a time when someone you know did something that didn't make any sense to you, their actions did not follow any scientific laws, yet did not violate the laws of physics.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by mostafahmed » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:57 pm

Basically spirituality emotions and even how the brain works-considering only 10% of it- are Incomprehensible to scientists. Love is discribed as an emotion in science while explained in many other ways as philosophy of living. Everything has a scientific explanation yet not complete especially of which has happened as miracles long ago when jesus,mohamed and other amazing people
was alive. it is all up to believing with nature as evidence.
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by mostafahmed » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:58 pm

But I guess me being 13 does not top your experience.
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Re: Why did God Torture His Son?

Post by Tobias_Marco » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:10 pm

<You being 13 is not relevant, I have meet 30 year old people who were dumb as rocks and 13 year olds who were incredibly smart. I heard of a girl who when she was in high school did a science fair project that was the cure for cancer. That seems smart enough to me, yet there are people older than me who wouldn't know the first thing about anything.>
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20