Where Evolution falls short - Please read first post

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Blu
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Re: Where Evolution falls short - Please read first post

Post by Blu » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:33 pm

so then thEarth must be older than you thought =P

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Re: Where Evolution falls short - Please read first post

Post by Tobias_Marco » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:32 pm

<I will admit that based on this it is very hard not to come to one of two conclusions: 1) The Earth is far older then I say that it is, or 2) Somehow the scientists who did the work that created that articular miss read/translated the evidence.>
<It will be interesting to see how things develop in the future.>
<I can't help but be reminded of a case I heard about where a clam was said to have been dead for many millions of years, then they found that it was still alive.>
Kofahl, Robert E., Handy Dandy Evolution Refuter, Beta Books, San Diego, 1977, p. 199
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Where Evolution falls short - Please read first post

Post by Current » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:35 pm

How many stalactites older than your estimated age of the Earth would convince you that it's 1) rather than 2)?

Failing that, how many things dated by how many methods?

I don't mean to ask you for an exact number, of course. People generally don't have access to that kind of information about themselves. Still, it would be interesting to know if you have any kind of approximation.
What is not the answer to this question?

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Re: Where Evolution falls short - Please read first post

Post by Tobias_Marco » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:49 pm

http://www.qccsa.org/the-end-of-long-ag ... ic-dating/
High levels of radiogenic Helium have been found in Zircon crystals. The very small crystals were taken from core samples deep in the earth’s crust. (multiple-mile deep cores drilled in New Mexico) Within the biotite rocks are Zircon crystals that contain trace clusters of U. As the U decays into Lead, it goes through various stages and gives off Helium atoms. This He is released into the crystal and rock.

U DecayHelium atoms are pretty thin and can seep through solid rock. But even for He, this takes some time. The speed of Helium diffusion through solid rock has been measured. If long -age evolutionary guesses of the original amount of U are correct, then we can calculate how much Helium should have been produced and then seeped out of the crystal.

If the granite is billions of years old, only the most recent Helium would still be trying to work its way out of the rock. So there would be very little Helium left in the rock.

BUT, if the rock is only thousands of years old (not billions), there should still be plenty of He still trapped in the solid granite rock. What do we actually find? What does the data (basis of true science) show?

There is enough Helium left in the rocks, to account for an age for Earth of only (you guessed it!) about 6000 years!

The standard age of the rock is said to be 1.5 billion years old. Plenty of time for the process to reach steady state by uniformitarian standards. All this time as Helium (a very light element) is given off, it slips around the other atoms and leaves the crystal lattice. The hotter the crystal, the faster the He escapes into the surrounding rock. As the Zircon crystals were studied, it was apparent there was a lot of He still in the crystal – in fact much too much – if this was going on for a billion years.

Measurements in a blind experiment were taken that showed how much Helium should be left after certain amounts of time, at various heat levels of the rock and the diffusion rate of He leaving the crystal. Predictions were made for the diffusion rates based on two different relationships – one for an evolutionary time frame of billions of years, and one for a Creationist time frame of thousands of years. The results from an independent lab showed the diffusion rate to be practically the same as the predicted creationist rate. Extremely close – excellent results for the young-earth creationist time frame, and not at all what the evolutionary time frame predicted. This is proof that those deep earth rocks with large amounts helium still in the zircon crystals were only thousands of years old. They cannot be a billion years old, or close to that figure. If you believe in predictive, quantifiable science, then you cannot believe in 1.5 billion year old rocks.

In order to get the level of helium found in the rocks, there had to have been a lot of radioactive decay. But the results show also that there was not only very a rapid decay episode, but the helium still in the crystal, shows it happened in the recent past. Recent as in thousands of years ago, not millions let alone billions.
Polonium halos in granite and metamorphic rocks formed in the catastrophic world-wide flood indicate a young age as well. Samples came from several granites. (ie Stone Mountain in Georgia, Yosemite Park, and Australia). Halos are a microscopic spherical pattern of damage in the crystalline structure of the granite. The damage is caused by high energy alpha particles that are emitted by radiometric decay of the Uranium in the rock.

Particles like tiny bullets pierce the rock and leave a spherical pattern, outward from the U atoms. These are found in high numbers, and at today’s rates would take millions of years to form. Polonium is one of the intermediate steps in U’s decay. Polonium is very unstable, and decays quickly. Some can decay in 3 minutes, some a few days. Po halos are also found in all rocks and in large numbers. How can they be there in large numbers? They are in what some consider flood-age granites, but also in “ancient” rocks which have not only large numbers of short-life polonium halos BUT ALSO long-life U halos. This conundrum can only be explained if there were one or more rapid changes in U decay rates. The large numbers of these Po halo finds do indicate very quick changes in decay rates and that the rocks cannot be millions and millions of years old. Again, the observable science fits the Creation model and not the uniformitarian model.
Carbon 14 (or radiocarbon) is an entirely different method of dating materials in the earth. It is only used on material that was once alive. Bones, flesh, plants, and any remains that are not entirely fossilized into rock, is what C-14 can be used on. It is only good for a dating back with any confidence to less than 80,000 years. This is because C-14 (the radioactive parent element) has a half life of only 5,730 years. C-14 is from the atmosphere and part of the food chain. Plants take in as carbon dioxide, the C-14 is the carbon atom, instead of the normal and stable C-12. It is everywhere and all through the food chain, such that all living things as well as the atmosphere, have about the same amount of carbon-14 inside their living tissue. While the C-14 is replenished by breathing and eating, the C-14 already in the body is beta-decaying back to nitrogen N-14, and a steady state is held, matching the amount of C-14 in the body with the amount in the atmosphere. (only about 1 part per million of Carbon elements in CO2 is made up of C-14.)

However once a plant or animal dies, it stops ingesting new C-14. The existing C-14 in the body continues to decay, reducing the percentage of C-14 to C-12 in the physical remains. After digging up a sample, and caring to insure no contamination occurs from handlers, the sample’s percentage of C14- to C12 is measured, compared to the atmosphere’s percentage and the time since death is then calculated. That’s basically how it works. Again, radio-carbon dating is only used on samples that were once alive, and is typically good for only ages up to 80,000 years with any reliability. It was never used to indicate millions of years of age for fossils or rocks or anything else. Evolutionists never use C-14 on samples they believe to be millions of years old. To them it would be a waste of money to do the test, since they ‘know’ the rock or sample or fossil is millions of years old - and should therefore be C-14 dead (no trace amounts of C-14 to be measured).

Yet samples of material analysis of rocks believed to be millions of years old, do contain tiny (microscopic) fragments of shells, bone, graphite (wood) and other organic materials. Marble is metamorphosed limestone (calcium carbonate) and has been studied for other reasons many times. The compositional analysis of its contents from these studies have been published in many scientific journals. These studies always show some amount of C-14 in the details ( that should not be there), but it is recorded – just not commented on in the publications.

Because of these observations, the RATE Team collected samples of coal (Metamorphosed plant remains) from deep mines from all over the earth. Each one is thought to be hundreds of millions of years old, and therefore should be C-14 dead. These samples were sent to independent labs for C-14 dating. EVERY ONE of the samples was dated to be only thousands of years old based on the C-14 content that was still there - in EACH AND EVERY SAMPLE. This occurs despite the assumption that the surrounding rock was supposed to be millions of years old.

Bones of dinosaurs were also dated, as well as petrified wood. EVERY sample contains C-14 . In fact, fossil samples from a large spectrum of the fossil record were also tested. EVERY ONE contains C-14 indicating an age in the thousands – NOT millions of years old.

C14 DiamondsDiamonds from deep mines were also tested. Samples of industrial diamonds from around the world were also tested. (Since they are so dense, diamonds are not susceptible to internal contamination.) These are thought to have been formed early in the earth’s history – “billions” of years ago.

And yet EVERY one had C-14 detectable. If DEEP-EARTH Diamonds contain C-14, it is truly impossible for this planet to be in the millions and billions of years in age. This is real observable science. Not conjecture and not a series of “assumption after assumption” process used in the billion year old thinking.
True education, true science, true religion is the search for truth.
Matthew 28:16-20, John 3:14-20

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Re: Where Evolution falls short - Please read first post

Post by ZiraWoods » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:32 pm

Sorry if I seem like a noob but science makes my head hurt and there are some very long examples on the last few pages I tried to wrap my head around. It seems to me the debate is whether to believe in creationism or evolutionism. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe both can co-exist. GOD created the world in 7 days. Science says that's impossible right? But how do we know our days are the same length as GOD's? And who ever said he stopped creating after the day he rested?

Science isn't accurate but it's what we use to explain what we can't understand instead of just believing it exists because it simply does. Maybe a naive way of seeing the world though. Any thoughts?
"How and what you see in the world is just a matter of perception," Zira remarked, "There are wonders and miracles standing right next to you if you're willing to believe."

"Allonsy"