The Great Flood

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Luna May
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by Luna May » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:10 am

Shamefully, so did I.
Man, this place has changed. Heya, new members! *waves*
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by The_Brigadier » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:10 pm

Damn! LM, TM, your post are just Way. Too. Long. However, the Great Flood did occur.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html#China" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It has to more than coincidnce if peoples from around the world all tell stories about such a watery travesty.
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by Current » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:23 pm

...you're citing talk.origins in favour of the Great Flood?

In any case. Yes, flood stories are common, and no, that's probably not a coincidence. But that doesn't mean the reason is "because an actual Great Flood happened". For one, because the flood stories contradict each other. You could say that this gigantic flood had thousands of separate groups of survivors each telling their own version in which only they survive, but that basically means that all the stories are wrong. They might be based on something that's true, but the stories themselves are not.

For another, common literary themes don't have to correspond to actual events. Plenty of stories have wizards and witches and such, for example, yet that doesn't mean that magic actually exists, only that the human brain is such that it tends to create those stories. Floods happen, and it's not that far-fetched that people who see their homeland flooded would assume it destroyed the entire world. They wouldn't necessarily have any reason to separate their own lands from the entirety of Earth.
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by The_Brigadier » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:44 pm

I still believe that the Great Flood happened. Even if all the stories contradict one another, they all have the common element of the Flood. I try to veiw those stories logically: a watery disaster occured around the world and very few survived, but the survivors managed to reproduce and tell their stories in a way that made the odds seem impossible. That's how a lot of people tell their own personal stories.
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by Current » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:19 am

So, the multiple stories about dragons prove the existence of fire-breathing reptiles? The multiple ghost stories prove the existence of ghosts? The multiple stories with wizards prove magic is real?
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by The_Brigadier » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:11 pm

Er... I know I people who've had experiences with the dead; magic is still practiced by Kabbalists (sp?), Voodoo priests and preistesses, and Wiccans; and I don't have any proof on dragons but I still believe in them. :) Are you by any chance Chilean or Argentinian?
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by Current » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:58 pm

AlbinoBlackSheep wrote:Er... I know I people who've had experiences with the dead; magic is still practiced by Kabbalists (sp?), Voodoo priests and preistesses, and Wiccans; and I don't have any proof on dragons but I still believe in them. :)
And that's why I shouldn't make assumptions... fair enough. Let's take this a step deeper. What do you think is more likely to be true, the theories geologists construct based on physical evidence, or stories passed down through oral tradition?
Honest question, I'm not trying to make a point. Yet, anyway.
Are you by any chance Chilean or Argentinian?
I'm Argentinian, yeah. Why do you ask?
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by The_Brigadier » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:19 pm

I believe both. However, I'm careful on which sources I trust.

Although most scientists do their best to make sure that their theories are correct, there are many times in which they have been proven completely wrong. Take for example the theory of humans came to be. People once thought that humans were three races that developed in three regions: Caucasians from the Caucasas; Blacks from Africa; and Asians from China. However, these scientists were proven wrong by later findings and it is a now widely accepted theory that humanity is a single race that developed in Africa. I listen to scientific discoveries and try to take everything with a bit of salt because not much is certain.

Legends do house some truths, even if those truths are very well hidden. Take for example the Aztec. The Aztec said that they were once cave-people who traveled from place to place, fighting for their lives. Eventually, the Hummingbird god, Huitzilpochtli (sp?) guided them to a lake with a small island in the middle. The Aztec built their magnificent city, Tenochtitlan, on that island and greatly prospered until the "god", Quetzlcoatl, visited them again.

In reality, the Aztec were once mercenaries, hired by the Central American city-states to defend and/or conquer their enemies. The Aztec lived on the outside of the city-states and traveled around, offering their services to whomever would pay. Eventually, the Aztec came across the island in Lake Texcoco and settled there, buileding their city. In the Aztec year One, the same year that Quetzlcoatl promised to return, the Spainards came. The Aztec mistook Cortes as their god because of his shiny armor and feathers and welcomed him and his men into their city. And through disease, warfare, and slavery, the Spainards conquered the once mighty Aztec. Do you see the similarites between reality and the legend?

Argentinian? Cool, I was right! Mi padres son dominicanos! De donde usted vive? Buenos Aires? :D
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by Current » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:30 pm

AlbinoBlackSheep wrote:I believe both. However, I'm careful on which sources I trust.

Although most scientists do their best to make sure that their theories are correct, there are many times in which they have been proven completely wrong. Take for example the theory of humans came to be. People once thought that humans were three races that developed in three regions: Caucasians from the Caucasas; Blacks from Africa; and Asians from China. However, these scientists were proven wrong by later findings and it is a now widely accepted theory that humanity is a single race that developed in Africa. I listen to scientific discoveries and try to take everything with a bit of salt because not much is certain.
Do you consider that legends are just as vulnerable to be overruled by evidence found later as scientific theories?
Legends do house some truths, even if those truths are very well hidden. Take for example the Aztec. The Aztec said that they were once cave-people who traveled from place to place, fighting for their lives. Eventually, the Hummingbird god, Huitzilpochtli (sp?) guided them to a lake with a small island in the middle. The Aztec built their magnificent city, Tenochtitlan, on that island and greatly prospered until the "god", Quetzlcoatl, visited them again.

In reality, the Aztec were once mercenaries, hired by the Central American city-states to defend and/or conquer their enemies. The Aztec lived on the outside of the city-states and traveled around, offering their services to whomever would pay. Eventually, the Aztec came across the island in Lake Texcoco and settled there, buileding their city. In the Aztec year One, the same year that Quetzlcoatl promised to return, the Spainards came. The Aztec mistook Cortes as their god because of his shiny armor and feathers and welcomed him and his men into their city. And through disease, warfare, and slavery, the Spainards conquered the once mighty Aztec. Do you see the similarites between reality and the legend?
I'm not terribly acquainted with Aztec history. Legends having some relation with past history, of course, makes sense, but legends foretelling the future seems dubious. For one, what I can find points that the whole "Cortés was hailed as a returning Quetzalcoatl" is mostly based on reports of the Spanish conquistadores. I don't think their understanding of Aztec culture was too reliable. Though if you do have any reliable sources that say the Aztecs expected Quetzalcoatl to return the same year Cortés found them, I'd be interested in reading it.
Argentinian? Cool, I was right! Mi padres son dominicanos! De donde usted vive? Buenos Aires? :D
Sí, vivo en Buenos Aires :)
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Re: The Great Flood

Post by The_Brigadier » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:54 pm

Do you consider that legends are just as vulnerable to be overruled by evidence found later as scientific theories?
Oh heavens no! A legend is what it is, and there is only one that I can think of that is subject to change as scientific discoveries are. Besides, most people do not take legends seriously any way (unless it's a creation myth). I just think that legends can add a bit to humanity's understanding of the past.
the whole "Cortés was hailed as a returning Quetzalcoatl" is mostly based on reports of the Spanish conquistadores.
Really? :O The books I read never told me that! All they said was Cortes was viewed as a god. I may need to do the math on the whole Year One thing... or maybe not since I'm lazy. :p

Por favor, perdona mi espanol. Mi primera lengua es ingles. Ahora, yo practica espanol con mi padres, pero todavia mi espanol es muy mal. u//u
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